MTM2.com

My latest track project is my biggest so far. The 147 corners, 14 miles, 8 minute lap that is the Nurburgring. I tried a year ago but it didn't fit on the MTM map, so I'm trying again but making in half the width. I'll be posting a step by step report on my progress, so as I begin on textures, you may post your thoughts on this idea.

My first thoughts:

"hmmm...I've have to put a bigger gas tank on my next truck..."




Nothing more pops up in the vast emptyness of my skull until I see the results, but I'm looking forward to doing so.

Get us a beta when you can

I have made a start on the track and all textures are made. I've layed them out up to Flugplatz (here ). Just to whet your appetites, here is one quote about the 'Ring, from a driver who knew it well: "Anyone who said he liked the 'Ring was either a fool or he wasn't going fast enough." Does that give you an idea of how crazy this track was? I also have a very nice 11 minute video of an onboard lap of the 'Ring from a motorcycle, if anyone wants to see it. Anyway, report:

Day 1 - Textures

Well, it was never going to be easy. The texturing is arguably the hardest part of making this circuit. Having to texture 147 corners isn't always fun. Another growing problem was that of space. I was already running out of room on the map. However, I just have to put all that out of my mind and build the track anyway. Here are some pictures of my progress.






The infamous Flugplatz jump

Have you ever thought to rough in the course using a paint program.

<center><img src="http://mtm2.com/~forum/images/NIR_CrashCart_topic3337_theRing.gif" width="256" height="256"></center>

Paste that into traxx as a bmp, then use the terrain to help shape where you put the textures. Once the course is in, you can flatten the terrain and build it up the way you want. I haven't done exactly this, but I've done close. And it can sure help get the map the way you want. I'm not saying you have to work this way, just giving ideas. But it seems a taylor made method for what you're doing. Or, at least, it's one way to make sure it fits the grid.

Yes, that is a good idea, but I'm not sure it'll work for this track. Once the map is pasted in, it'll only be 1 grid space wide and the textures won't really fit around it. But thanks for the tip, and next time I do a real track, I'll use that technique.

Day 2 - Textures

Well, I made good progress today, but the layout is not what it should be. I had to squash it sideways a lot to make it fit on the MTM map. But, I managed to place textures up to the corner Karussell. Some of the ground boxes have been put in, and a small amount of altitude changes are also done. Just let me nkow if you want to have a drive round an early alpha version.

if you ask me, it seems like it would be easier to layout the textures if the map was rotated to the right a little bit. but thats just me

Hey Tyler, is the Evo2 map any bigger? If so, I feel a new opportunity coming on.

Hey crash, i was just about to ask you whatever happened with the ring you were trying to build.

Great you finally started working on it. I am not such a great trackbuilder, but if you have any questions i will do everything to help you out. I have a little time on my hands and i have the big advantage that i know the ring by heart.
I play a lot of grand prix legends and this weekends track is the ring. In order to stay on the track in gpl, you must know every corner insideout. Also i've driven a few laps on the ring with my motorbike.
So if you have any questions on how fast a turn must be taken, or if you need a screenshot from gpl to see how a turn looks like in another game, i would be glad to help you out. Whatever you want or need, just let me know .

I also have a video onboard with a car. The problem is that they first run a lap on the new Nurburgring, so it's difficult to see when they take on the Nordschleife. If you want it, just let me know. Problem is that it's to big (30 mb's) to put on my webspace, but i think i can send it to you with file share. All we need is moment when both or comps are online.

greeettzz
mumhra

Hehe, the old 'Ring was a year ago. It didn't fit, but great news. I have completed the texturing. The hardest work is done. I have GPL so I know the track now, and can do all the bumps. As for racing fast in GPL, I've been hotlapping for 1 day with the keyboard and my best is only 9:12 lol. I'm pleased that I know the first two-thirds by heart. It's a great track and I love driving it. Unfortunately, the MTM version had to be squashed up and is only 5 minutes long. Anyway, with the hedges, banks, jumps and unexpectedly blind corners, it should be fun. Drop me a line if you want to drive it online.

hehe, i can't understand how you manage to play gpl with keyboard lol. Prob you have throttle and brake help on... (my guess, maybe i'm wrong )

I'm driving about 8:45 with the cars from 1965. With the ones from the original game (1967) i manage a 8:25, but i crash way to often with those cars. They are faster, but more difficult to drive.

The biggest problem on building this track is imo the Karussel and the small karussel at Schwalbenshwanz. You could leave them out ofcourse, but a ring without those 2 karussels is not really a ring...

2 things i would add in this track :

1. The lone spruce that is standing at the first karussel. It's a very famous tree because from the 2nd gear right turn, just after Klostertall, you have to look at this tree to know where the next braking point will be. There are a few minor turns but you can go full throttle if you just keep your eye on the spruce.

2. I would place the same signs as you find in gpl. It makes it easier to know the track and to find out where you just are driving so it would help you figure out what the next turn is going to look like.


Finding a moment when we both are online and have time to drive will be difficult since you live in the USA and i live in Europe. You can always mail your track to me (OLD_mumhra@hotmail.com) so i can check it out. I promise i won't give it to anybody else. (If your track is to big to send to an hotmail account, just let me know then i'll give you my other adress)
I am not a beta-tester so i won't beta test the track. All i can do is compare this track to the track in real life....

Surprisingly I don't. Though having them off doesn't seem to be any different to having them on lol.


Yep, I've even got a tree model that will only be used for that one 'marker'.


I was actually going to do this as well. Strange how we think so similarly.


Well, I found this quite easy to do surprisingly. I made some new textures and put the banking in, voila, instant Karussell. Here's a pic:

Could you post your other address please? Hotmail won't send it.

check pm...

That track map looks interesting. I won't download it because I am a dragger though, but I still think it is interesting.

Now that's strange... i thought i replied to this allready...
Oh well, here it is again :

I on't have a lot of time today because in a few hours i have to drive a one-hour race on the ring with gpl. So i've spend about 10 minutes on the track and this is what i came up with so far :

The track layout looks better then i expected it to be. I was not so convinced when you tried to rebuild Silverstone but this looks way better. A few remarks tho...

1. The part at Hatzenbach is way to fast. Irl those all are 2nd gear S-curves. Here and there you can go up to 3rd for a few seconds. Here i can drive flatout through that entire section.

2. I don't really understand what you did with Adenaur forst. That part is a very slow left/left/right combination but here i can't find it. For a moment i thought you skipped that part and got to ex-mühle immediately but i don't think so because further down the track i could recognize where i was driving.

3. The height changes look very good. Up to a part that is. In the beginning it's very good but further down the track it's all to flat to me. I think you still are working on that tho. Am i right when i think that you are ready with this from start upto Adenaur-forst ? There i see a few very strange mountains and i think you placed them just to make sure where you finished so far ? (http://users.pandora.be/mumhra/nurburgr ... denaur.JPG)
Just remember when you are building this track that Ex-mühle is the lowest part of the track. The Ex is a river and mühle just means mill. So don't forget to make a river and place a watermill on there .

4. I would add the nordkurve as well. It's a little turn that takes you back to the pitlane. You have made a little track that goes to the right just behind the pitlanes. Normally it should turn 180° and go back to the s/f line. You never drive on this part of the road, but it was there so why not rebuild it ? You can see it in gpl but it's impossible to drive on because of the tire walls.

That's it so far. I will have a better look into it tomorrow when i have more time. When you have a newer version available you can always send it to me . I also saw some bad texture transitions but i leave that one to Cope when he starts beta-testing it. Cope and texture transitions are hell

Not sure what I can do about that. I've made some tighter corners there and when I do the rest of the terrain, I'll put in all the banks that are there.



Adenauer Forst is where the altitude changes stop. I have tightened those corners now, so that they must be taken slower.



Yes, you're right. I have only completed the hills and valleys up to Adenauer Forst. Have you got a model I could use for a mill?



OK, I've now added that in, I can send you a newer version soon.

I've made some pics of the turn just in front of the straight end that leads upto flugplatz. It's the last S-curve of the Hatzenbach section.
This is what it look like in gpl :
http://users.pandora.be/mumhra/nurburgr ... ch_gpl.JPG
(You can see the right hander in the mirror)

And this is what you made so far (the banking not yet there, i know) :
http://users.pandora.be/mumhra/nurburgr ... ch_mtm.JPG

(Dang, i wanted to add some irl screenshots so you could compare the 3 of them, but i always get a black screen when trying to save a screenshot made from a movie. If you know how to do it, pls let me know)

I know you can't do much about that because traxx just won't let you make curves that tight.
The biggest problem is that these monstertrucks don't have such a high topspeed so with other cars you have to brake harder in order to make that turn.

Now you have 2 options to work around it :

1. You leave it as it is. So it's possible to make the turn at top speed. That would be the correct thing to do if you were trying to make an exact copie on how the track looks like irl. The problem however is that irl you have to brake hard for this turn, while in mtm you can full speed through this entire section.

2. You make the straight end in between these 2 curves longer and try to make the curves itself tighter. It doesn't look like it like that irl, but you more get the feeling on how it drives irl. You get the extra advantage that the lap times would be higher. I know it's impossible to reach an 8 min+ laptime, but 5 minutes is to short to my liking.

It's not only this S-curve that bothers me. The 2 S-es just in front of this you can drive straight through them without even touching your steering wheel, while irl you must brake hard and go very slow in order to make the turns. ( http://users.pandora.be/mumhra/nurburgr ... h2_mtm.JPG and http://users.pandora.be/mumhra/nurburgr ... h2_gpl.JPG )



Nope, i haven't. And i can't help you out making one because i don't know anything about binedit.
But i think it can't be to difficult, if you know binedit that is, to take an excisting mtm model and add a watermill to the side of that house.
If i'm mistaking you can always make sure the river runs behind the house so people are supposed to believe that the watermill is at the backside


One thing i must add. You did a great job with both karussel's. They (certainly the first one) are not as steep as they are irl, but they feel very good

OK, i just spent about an hour on what you have so far and i must say you did a terrific job. Most of the turns that are supposed to be slow really are slow (like ex-mühle, bergwerk, ...) A few minor remarks tho :

1. The slow righthander just after klostertal and just before the first karussel should give you the impression that you have to drive straight ahead. Because of the way the hills are positioned and it's a blind curve just make you think that there is no turn. There even is a road that goes straight on so i would add that.
I made a screen in gpl when you are just high enough to see over the bump. You see the road turning hard right, while a few feet earlier you would bet your house on the road going straight ahead : http://users.pandora.be/mumhra/nurburgr ... al_gpl.JPG
You don't have the bump or hills yet, but i would add the road ahead : http://users.pandora.be/mumhra/nurburgr ... al_mtm.JPG

2. Metzgesfeld (just in front of Kallenhard) consists of 2 right hand curves. The first being taken irl in 4th gear and with a lot of drift. The 2nd one being slower, taken in 2nd gear.
On this track i have the feeling that the 2nd turn is faster then the 1st one. I don't know if it's possible to change that. It's not really a big problem if you leave it like that.

3. You only have done a little part of altitude changes. At 1 point i'm not so happy with that. The road starts dropping just before the righthander at Aremberg and keeps on dropping al the way down to fuchsrörhe. You made the drop on the straight end upto fuchsrörhe perfectly, but it would be nicer if the righthander at Arember also was going downhill instead of being flat. Arember is a difficult turn because there is not a lot of traction because of the road is descending. But here there is a lot of traction because the turn is flat.
The problem is that the altitude changes at the Nurburgring are incredible. For a race car that is. A monster truck laughs at these changes... To make the track worthwhile to drive you should overdo these changes, but not to much. It's not a real racetrack if your truck is more airborne then with its wheels on the ground.



That's about it so far. Looking forward on your progress .
I hope you realize this is the easiest part. I wonder how you are going to make the track driveable without shortcuts with only 20 cp's and not much models that you can use...