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 Post subject: Crystal Summit Beta
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 5:08 pm 
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Yes, it's that time again. I have a new tarmac track beta for you. This one is a snowy street track. Mal, as per usual, I need CP position suggestions. I have noticed that the back section doesn't have much other that trees, because I hit 541 objects but needed to leave room for CPs. There is no map yet, I want to know if you like the feel and the layout first. Anyway, enough talking, try it out and comment in here.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 7:02 pm 
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Hehe very nice, Cr@$h - I like the layout, the snow, and how you used the terrain to discourage corner cutting and outright shorcuts...and the snow factors into that as well.

One thing I did notice and that is when I mount WGP 1, 2, and 3, the in-game screen shots defaults to whatever track is mounted highest in the list. In my case, the screenshot for WGP 1 appears when I select WGP 2 and 3. Easy fix there. Hehe good thing to know before you got too far into this series lol.

Here's Copey version of a checkpoint layout I think would work well. You wouldn't need many because as I see it the layout, terrain and model work takes care of a lot of potential cuts...unless I'm missing something.

I'll be back with more tomorrow. Took a short break from a review to take a look at your new beta. :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 7:16 pm 
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>> chkpnts.jpg

cope got here first, lol.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:09 am 
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Thanks Cope. I did know about the conflict but tried and failed to fix it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:23 am 
Glow Ball
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from http://legwon.biz/faq/mtmfaq.html

to http://forum.mtm2.com/viewtopic.php?t=1199

How to avoid name conflicts


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:29 am 
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It's not really a name conflict because the different tracks come out but take the same screenshot. The .SIT files all have different names from WGP 1 - 3.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:53 am 
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I haven't driven it yet, crash, but i do have a little question.
i know this will be a 6 track championship, and i've read somwhere that you are trying to rebuild the 6 most beautifull tracks in the world. Also i read there that one of those 6 will be the old nurnburgring. Is that true ? or was i dreaming ?

Because if it is, that would be an achievement. I live rather close to the ring, and have driven it a few times with my bike. Also i like to drive the track with another game called gpl, and i tell ya that track is awesome. It takes approx 10 mins irl to complete 1 lap in a BMW M5, it has i think over 100 curves. A guy once said : "Don't worry if you are 15 secs a lap slower then your competitors in the ring, it just means you have take every turn 1/10th of a sec faster".
If you are not going to do it, maybe i'll do it myself, but to be honoust i don't see myself pulling that one off.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 2:05 am 
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I am taking on the 'Ring. It is 20.8 kilometers long. However, so far that is the only real life track I'm doing. You ride the Ring aswell, my father made a video a while ago of an onboard lap of the Ring from his bike. It is the modern long Ring though, not the GPL style one.

So you are also a GPL racer. I have driven the Ring in GPL too. I think it has something like 128 curves. I think you'd be able to do it, seeing as you're other 7 min track X-Raid was a hit and very well made. I find that tarmac tracks are my high point. This is mainly because of my love of motorsports. Superbike and MotoGP are great to watch. Great crashes. :D

Well, I hope you like the WGP series.

100th post!

Edit: I will have model number problems so have you got any suggestions on how to get round this?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 3:07 am 
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Nope crash, i have no idea how you can work around it.
I had same problem making x-raid. That's also the reason why you'll find there's way to much water in de part before the desert.

You only have 20 cp's, so in order for guys to follow your track you can put models, or make it impossible to find a shortcut by making the terrain undrivable by using or mountains or terrain. The problem with these monster trucks is that they are made for driving on rough terrain, so if you are making mountains they have to be so high and steep the track does not look natural no more. So you only have water as alternative. But that is a problem to. If it's not deep enough people will drive through it, but if it's to deep people will get stuck.

I don't see on how you won't have enough models. There's not so much to see around the ring, besides trees. They could help ya keeping trucks on the track, but i suggest water for doing that, because there are indeed more then 541 trees around the ring [;)]

I'm not that big fan of all asphalt roads for mtm2, but if it's your thing go for it. If you stick with it your name will be made, that's for sure. And i can't wait to take on the ring with a monster truck :D

P.S. you should try and take on knarfke (dunnow if ya know him, he made mtmstarter) when you play gpl. He drives the belgian championship and is incredibly fast there. He just had a race on Silverstone, and asked me to join him in practise. My best lap time was 1.34.??, while he drives a 1.28.??. World record on that track is by a guy named Greger Huttu with a 1.24.??. it's not that much the times they drive, but it's very difficult to control these cars. If you see them driving lap after lap without crashing and at laptimes below 1.30 you just can't believe your eyes.
In 3 weeks time race will be held on the ring, and i know he's practising like mad now to be fast on it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:45 pm 
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Not only are there a lot of trees on the Ring, but nearly all of it is surrounded by armco barriers. I'm not that fast around Silverstone, every time I go for a fast lap I seem to go into the grass at Maggots.

Is anyone going to post possible problems? I need stuff to do.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 2:06 pm 
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LOL, i just drove this track, but to be honoust i suck as a beta tester.
I like this one better then the other 2, so i don't have anything to say about it [;)]

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 2:16 pm 
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I forgot to warn you mum, don't try them offline unless it is hotlapping on testing. According to everyone else, it really gets good online. Take 4 or 5 other guys out on those tracks with you in a race and see if it's good. I would race online but I have endless problems.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 3:16 pm 
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Didn't you just post this track yesterday? LOL patience, Cr@$h...patience. Keep in mind that on Silverton almost 2.5 weeks passed at one point between someone making a post citing flaws (namely me) and you releasing a new version lol...so like, can you honestly be in that much of a hurry?

There's more to come, but if you want somewhere to start, and it's strictly an aesthestics thing, consider these two pics: Zoon's snow & EmceeMart's snow. Now have a look at your snow. See the difference? Snow's not that neat, it shouldn't have a manicured appearance. Hehe that should keep you busy for a while. :)

I'll be back later tonight, but to be honest, other than the lack of blending between the snow/grass textures, it looks pretty darn good. At least nothing jumped out at me after 5 laps on it yesterday. I'll breakout the Micron microscope tonight lol.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 3:25 pm 
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Darn it Copey, thought you wouldn't get anything and I could just do a sleepy hold on myself. :D I'll try and get it to look better and I also need to set the courses. Thanks for finding something.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 3:27 pm 
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Hehe my pleasure. Hey, what about that in-game screenshot snafu? Have you given up on that?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 4:54 am 
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This has nothing to do with your crystal summit beta, but was just thinking about that nurburgring where you have object and most important cp problems.
Take a look at flats formula race. OLD_flatwheels has found 2 other ways of keeping trucks on track. Not only mountains (which i don't suggest) or water will work, but you can also make the surface next to the track so slippery that it's almost impossible to drive. What he also did and i think was very clever is that he did not put cp markers. You don't see the cp's, you just hear them when you drive through them. That way people will be scared to drive next to the track, because there's always a possibility they will miss them.
Sorry to post that in this thread, because it's out of place here, but i just wanted to say it before i forgot all about it. (OLD_mumhra, remember [:P] )

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 8:55 am 
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Hehe it's cool, mum...but just so ya know, this forum does have the private message feature, so that's always an option for ya. :)

Hey Cr@$h, so that you don't fry your brain trying to get that snow to come out...well, "ZooN-like", have a look at Winterkill's "Wake Up!". His approach was slightly different than ZooN's and EmceeMart's, but it definitely works, and quite well too. For a closer look you can grab the track and do a little exploring. It's a "must have" anyway. :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 10:57 am 
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Hmmm...not a whole lot to complain about so far, Cr@$h. Lookin pretty good, man. Btw, just so we're clear, I'll tell you everything I see. Whether you fix it or not is up to you, bud. My role isn't to decide what should and shouldn't be fixed. If I start doing that, then I'm compromising the role I'm supposed to be playing. That's how I see it anyway. :)

Here are the few observations I have:

• Got a misplaced tile here
• This corner looks a tad out of wack...looks as though it could use a little work.
• I really like how you used the stone barriers in this track, but quite a few of them are out of alignment, and some to the point of overlapping the adjacent barrier, as shown here. Also, in the first pic off to the right I circled a slight alignment flaw on the road that's pretty predominent throughout the track. I think I recall seeing that same flaw on WGP-01/02 as well, but I'm not sure if they're worth being concerned with though.
• Finally, I found one floating tree lol. It's pretty close to the start finish line, and you can tell by the pic.

I also noticed all your models were visible in sparse, but I didn't notice the slightest trace of lag or chug, so good job there!. Oh, and I also like those grandstands you used. Nice choice, bud.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 10:19 pm 
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>> "I have noticed that the back section doesn't have much other that trees, because I hit 541 objects but needed to leave room for CPs."

You should use bigger wall sections instead of so many small ones, which is easily done since your terrain is mostly flat. You should probably cut a few trees down too.

The stone walls:
You used "~stnwal1.bin", which is 32 feet long (one terrain square), but others are available.
"~stnwal2.bin" is 64 feet long (two sqaures)
"~stnwal3.bin" is 128 feet long (four squares)
All are the same height, and are simple rectangles, but are stretched to the different lengths. If you don't like the stretched look (~stnwal3 definately doesn't look very good) I just made (and zipped) "~stnwal7.bin" and "~stnwal8.bin", which are the same sizes as 2 and 3 but are actually just "~stnwal1.bin" repeated two and four times in order to maintain the scale of the texture width (i.e no stretching). I also included the rails/ice-rail models that use that very same texture in case you'd like to use them somehow, I'm not suggesting you do, but since you have the texture in memory already I figured I'd point them out. <a href=http://mtm2.com/~trackville/winterwalls.zip>ZIP here</a>.



>> "It's not really a name conflict because the different tracks come out but take the same screenshot. The .SIT files all have different names from WGP 1 - 3."

What's up is that you named your track "World GP 3", the first eight letters of which Traxx uses as the basename of your track's data files, and in this case is just a matter of removed spaces, as in "worldgp3". I know you know this much, but....

What Traxx also does is automatically name the two user interface bitmaps using the base filename and then adds an "S" and an "L" to them, but in an effort to maintain eight letter names it always cuts off the eighth letter in order to add the "s" and "l".

So your WORLDGP3 track ends up with WORLDGPS.BMP and WORLDGPL.BMP for bitmaps. Your WORLDGP1 and WORLDGP2 tracks also get the number knocked off and replaced with s&l, so that the bitmaps in your whole series all have the same names!

Using Traxx alone you'd have had to name your tracks "Wrld GP#" for it all to have worked out (seven letters). However, the real solution is to re-build your own pods after Traxx has made them, which is a widely used process due to these built-in limitations.

I always choose a track's basename myself and use that in Traxx instead of the track's real name. After Traxx writes the pod I extract all files from it, edit the .SIT file and then re-build the pod.

The first lines of your .sit file look like this:

WORLDGP3.lvl
!Race Track Name
World GP 3
Race Track Locale
Traxxville USA
Track Longtitude, Latitude
7947984,7947988
Track Logo .BMP file
WORLDGPS.BMP
Track Map .BMP file
WORLDGPL.BMP


If I were you I'd just use a name like "ccwgp3" in Traxx, to set the basename (translation: CrashCart World GP 3) then write the pod. Using a name with seven letters or less would ensure your UI bitmaps will not conflict or require a renaming and a subsequent update of the sit file to reflect the name changes.

Then, extract the pod, edit the sit file and rebuild the pod. What would you need to edit? Only the third line, which is the track name as seen in game.

Following my example, your sit file would look like this before editing:

ccwgp3.lvl
!Race Track Name
ccwgp3
Race Track Locale
Traxxville USA
Track Longtitude, Latitude
7947984,7947988
Track Logo .BMP file
ccwgp3S.BMP
Track Map .BMP file
ccwgp3L.BMP


You would change:
!Race Track Name
ccwgp3

to this:
!Race Track Name
World GP 3

or to anything you like.

Multiple tracks can have identical names without conflicting as long as they have different basenames. Anyone doing a series like yourself basically has no choice but to work in the manner we've outlined in order to get around name conflicts. Cheers to Phin for his info.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2004 9:21 am 
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Well, this thread has been dormant for a while, or as Mal would say: ee's sleeping!! :D

Okay, there is a new beta out now, whole new texture set, fixed the problems that Cope pointed out but I haven't done the name conflict thing yet. I'll be doing that for the WGP pack of 6 tracks. I will also get music for the pack. What about Free Bird by Lynyrd Skynrd?

Next track after Crystal Summit is released will be a street circuit like Monaco. Complete with harbour, tunnel, hairpins and crazy terrain.


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