MTM2.com

Well, this has me quite perplexed. I'm hoping someone may have some insight into what I should look into for resolving it. It's bit of a novel but just posting "my joystick doesn't work, please help" just isn't my style...

Here's the deal: I have a first-generation Microsoft SideWinder joystick (Precision Pro/3D Pro Plus model, depending on what you read) and it's the best Microsoft product I've ever bought - besides, of course, MTM2. I bought it around '97 or '98 I think, anyway it predates Windows 98 and all of this USB malarky, having the old-style 15-pin game port plug that typically jacks into the back of the sound card. It comes with special software to run with Windows 95, but all later versions of Windows have the drivers built-in and autodetects what joystick it is, so when I got my new computer (with Windows XP) last year it was a seamless switch to use with the new comp - plug in and go.

It's been faithful and faultless all this time... till just the other day. I'd decided I wanted to play some MTM2, so I fired up a track and grabbed my joystick to play.

Something was wrong with my controls. The truck's steering was randomly flickering to the left, the camera moved even though I didn't touch the POV hat switch. Braking response was poor because it was trying to accelerate of its own accord. I could still drive, but this intermittent mind-of-its-own was freaking me out.

I quit and tried to think what I'd changed since the last time it worked successfully (only last week or two) that might be causing this behaviour. All I'd done recently was update my graphics drivers though - I'd earlier also installed DirectX 9.0b, but I'd played since then and it had worked. I opened Control Panel to check the device was working - Status OK, all seemed in order. I reached around the back of the computer to check the plug was seated properly - it was but I gave it a push just to be sure.

Puzzled, I launched the game again and loaded the track. Immediately my truck took a hard left turn with full gas, and the camera shot overhead. It drove in circles in the lake, without response to anything I did with the 'stick. My controls were dead.

I quit again and went back into Control Panel. Status Not Connected. I checked again the plug was still in - it was. Still, Windows couldn't find it. I shut down, unplugged it, plugged it back in (all with great difficulty due to the setup here making it hard to reach the back of the comp), and restarted. Windows still couldn't find it. I did the whole thing again, this time uninstalling the device driver before shutting down. Windows didn't detect the new device plugged in when it started. I manually reinstalled the device driver - Status Not Connected. Had my joystick really given up the ghost after all this time?

I shut down the computer, unplugged the 'stick and took it down the hall to where the old Win95 computer resides - if it didn't work here, it would have to be a failure in the joystick itself. Plugged it in and booted the machine up, dug out the old SideWinder CD the joystick was bundled with and installed the software. Then checked it out in control panel.

The joystick worked. All nine buttons, all three axes, throttle, hat switch... everything. If something was broke, it wasn't the joystick.

I took it back to the XP computer, plugged it in and did the whole ritual... still nothing. Ok, this was getting annoying. I have an old, cheap Quickshot two-button two-axis SkyHawk joystick with the same 15-pin game port plug, that usually lives with the old comp now, so let's try it. Plugged it in, booted up... Windows XP found it automatically and set to installing generic joystick drivers. Check in Control Panel - the Skyhawk worked.

Ok, let's try this one more time. Uninstall driver, shut down the computer, unplug the Skyhawk, plug in the SideWinder, boot up... Windows didn't detect it. Manually install device drivers... Status Not Connected. What the hell was going on?

At this point it would be great to take the cover off the PC to check out the game port plug from the other side, and generally make it easier to see what's going on back there. Doing so, however, means I have to pull the whole tower out of the shelf/cabinet it's in, onto the floor, unplugging a few leads that won't reach along the way (my dad's responsible for this arrangement, it's a pain in the *beep*). That, I decided, was a task best left for a few days later. In the interrim, anyone have any suggestions for what might be wrong and what I should look at? I'm assuming I'm looking at some kind of fault in the game port on the sound card itself, whatever might make one joystick work while the other doesn't... but it's funny it just quit on me like that.

As for my game session interrupted above? After an hour trying everything just described, I ended up playing a card game. Help me, help me please!

That's an important clue, as it means your stick is a digital model (pure analog sticks like mine have a maximum of 4 buttons)

I suspect that your graphics or DirectX drivers are conflicting (is it possible that DirectX9 doesn't like (digital controllers mixed with gameports?)....since the stick/software is old,you may have little choice other than getting a new joystick with a USB plug, and leaving that other stick with the machine down th' hall.

I DO recall buying a few digital sticks with gameport connectors from logictech several years ago to use on my Win95/Pentium machine (I had to, since Win95 doesn't support USB) they are went back to the store, and I finnaly bought the CH products 4 button F-16 flightstick with throttle, and I still use it today.

That stick is still available ...the gameport version with 8 buttons is cheap (20-30 dollars), but the USB stick is 100-150 dollars.....You may have better luck with it, and for flying sims, I have found no other stick with the same great feel and freedom of movement....I saw one at Frys yesterday for $99 (USB version).

You can see my controller here (now called F-16 combatstick)
http://www.chproducts.com/shop/gameport.html

Have you considered that maybe pressing the plug all the way in broke the connection. Occassionally I see things that have the best connection when they're only 3/4 in. While the possibility of a driver conflict is very real, it seems your system and the separate parts are all working... except after you gave the plug that extra push to snug it in. It sounds weird, I know, but it's happened to me, more than once.

I don't know if that would be it......he said his stick worked on another machine, and that an analog stick works on his troubled machine......hmmmmm.

You may be right. But if the game ports are slightly different on each comp, it can be enough that it'd work on one and not the other. And he does say he has access problems to the back of one of them.

My most recent encounter with something like this was with the power supply to a cd drive. Worked on everything except this one cd. I switched the power wires around and now everything works. But I tell ya, I drove myself nuts trying to figure out the problem. I even took the drive in for warranty work cuz it wasn't working. It was only a fluke I found the problem.

when i had a similar expierience reloading my sound card drivers solved it as the gameport was part oif sound card give it a shot

I remember at a LAN event a friend had a similar problem with a first generation MSFF wheel (with gameport connector). Among other things, FF did not work at all. Sidewinder software could not be installed.

Browsing Microsoft and Sidewinder support sites we eventually found a statement like

End of the story

My suggestion is to create another partition and install a rusty-trusty Win98se. My friend did it and all the old devices and games run fine.

what happens if u boot up w/o the controller , then plug in the controller once fully booted?

XP is made to detect and auto setup if the drivers are available.

If possible, pull the soundcard out of the other computer (or if you have a spare...or if a bud has a spare) and try it in the machine with the problem. Rocket's suggestion seems reasonable as well. However, often times it comes down to trying what would require the least amount of effort. If you can resolve it without committing to a major undertaking, all the better. From your description though, when you pushed the connector in fully it definitely had an effect, abeit not the one you want, so Phin may be on to something as well.

Man, I know all about the kind of physical setup you're describing. Several years ago my wife went out and bought a desk (without consulting me, the all-knowing lol). It has one of those cpu cabinets, and let me tell ya, I hate it. I've had to pull that sucker out a few times. The last time I did it (early this year) I relocated the cpu lol. No more of that crap for me. Told her that if she didn't like it I'd put it back, but the next time it had a problem she was on her own. She conceded lolol. So it's Copey - 1, Vyper - 258. I'm making a comeback lol.

Goodluck man - let us no what happens.

I have been using a USB adaptor with Radio Shack in conjunction with my Sidewinder 3D Pro. Its finicky and every few weeks I need to fiddle with it for an hour to get it to work. But when it does work, it is nice.

Coincidentally, I've been using the keyboard the past few weeks because I haven't had the patience to fiddle.

Thanks for the assistance. I really didn't think I'd get as much response as I have, since I know it's hard to diagnose someone else's hardware problems through a remote text medium like this... you guys rock


Yes, all SideWinder game controllers are digital (the game port products use something Microsoft calls Digital Overdrive Technology, which to me just seems a fancy technique for getting all the axes/buttons/switches data through the game port in one hit... as you say, analogue controllers without the benefit of this have a limit of four buttons).


Possible, but unlikely. DirectX is structured so that all version releases are backwards-compatible with everything before, and as a matter of course, the DirectInput component of it didn't change from version 8 anyway. Besides, I'm pretty sure I played with it after installing DX9 (but before updating the graphics drivers), and it had worked then.


I should clarify, I don't install the bundled software on my WinXP comp - it's Windows 95 specific, and won't install if I wanted to... and anyway XP has the drivers built-in so it don't need it. I lose my Game Profiler program for this comp, but most games now are configurable enough that I can live without it.


Indeed, that's exactly why I want to drag the tower out and get a good look at it inside and out. The way it was dropping out intermittently during the game before it stopped entirely suggests something was losing physical contact. Unfortunately, it looks like it all will have to wait until next week at the earliest.


Yeah, I probably need to update them anyway. Though as I said above, I don't think this would be the problem... but then again, the reason I downloaded new graphics drivers was because the old ones were outdated for DX9 and causing bizarre graphics problems in the new games my brother brought home... so updating those sound drivers is probably the first thing I should do here. Hmm, let me check the Creative website. Ok, 13.5MB for the latest SB Audigy drivers. That's too big for me to get right now, but it's not too bad. I'll grab 'em sometime later as a matter of priority.


Ok, that surprises me... 'cos XP has the drivers in-built, and it's been working a charm the past 18 or so months as well. Though my joystick's not Force Feedback, which is probably the main thing they're no longer supporting through the game port.
Gosh it pains me that MS have stopped making controllers now, that was one thing they actually did well


Yes, and indeed that's what it did the very first time I plugged it in last year whenever... and it would do the same again if only Windows would detect the thing. I didn't care to try plugging/unplugging while Windows was running tho, because those old ports were not (originally) intended for hot-swapping devices, so it's a habit I developed. Something I'll try fersure when I come back to fiddling with it.


That would be pretty extreme and fiddly, I think... a last resort.


I was looking for one of those a while ago, but they seemed unobtainable.

Thanks all, I'll let you know more when I get to it. I really hope I can get this working again, it's a great joystick. But if not I suppose I could stand getting a new one... at least if this will still work on my Win95 computer it'll have a good retirement...

Well, we found the problem and quashed it... turned out to be the simplest of faults, a loose connector inside the computer. The game port for this computer is on an independent bracket mounted below the sound card, with a lead that plugs onto the card... said lead was found barely hanging off the prongs of the contact point! It must've somehow worked itself loose, or possibly was never properly seated to begin with... once it was pushed back in, everything worked perfectly again. Woohoo!

Thanks all for listening...

I had a similair problem recently with a Logitech Wingman Rumblepad and was very stumped, in a last ditch effort I perused Logitechs website and found that once in awhile games corrupt the Controller Calibrations and makes them do strange things. On mine the stick was stuck left and no amount of switching things around worked, even tore the controller apart but to no avail. Well it turns out that these "Auto Calibrate" style sticks can be reparied simpy by running a handy little program that Logiteh has posted, it resets the calibration in the windows registry and removes all joysticks, after a quick reboot everything was found, reinstalled and It was fixed.

I was extremely pleased, I thought I would have to replace the old girl as trusty as she's been but Logitech had the fix. The offending game was Ford Racing 2 and it was all because I curiously pushed the "Calibrate" button just to see what it did, even though my controls worked great....Lesson Learned.

11/24/2003 SideWinder note: http://support.microsoft.com/default.as ... -us;317645