Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.48 - and we have Dx11

Fila · Post by **Fila** » Sat Jul 11, 2026 11:25 am

OG_RuDeE wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2026 10:33 am Level loading is much faster for me now, almost don't even need the cache.

I added shadows to Quid Pro a while back, and there is an interesting new issue since hotfix 3. It looks like Malibu rotated fences randomly for visual variation, but since the new update about half of the fences show shadows on the correct side, and half on the wrong side. It happens in all weathers:

There are multiple things wrong with that picture and it's... mindblowing, lol.

1. Randomly fences getting killed with self shadows.
2. That weird light on the ground
3. The trucks shadow suggests that the sun is set at 45 degrees which is not, the sun is top down hence why you previously mentioned the track gets no shadows.

So... I have no clue how to approach this btw. You're saying this only started doing it with hotfix 3? Does the shadow angle stay the same in the whole track? Even when you drive in areas where there's no light on the ground?

As a reference, here is how it looks on my end. lol. And notice the truck shadow.

OG_RuDeE · Post by **OG_RuDeE** » Sat Jul 11, 2026 11:27 am

Careful! This is a modded version of Quid Pro, where I changed the sun to be at 45 degrees.

Edit: Here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1B1fXNV ... drive_link

Edit 2: The thing that changed since hotfix3 is that the fences now alternate the shadows that are cast on them.

Fila · Post by **Fila** » Sat Jul 11, 2026 11:31 am

Aaaaah. Ok... well, that explains it.

So the random shadow on the fence is somewhat weird since it should be light direction dependent in the first place but it's probably connected to the bug that blew up my shadows between hotfix2 and 3 (me trying to fix something that blew up ALL the shadows). I'll mod quid pro too and see if I can get it to happen on my end.
If this really messes things up so bad long term i might have to accept the existing bug in HF2 (and prior).

OG_RuDeE · Post by **OG_RuDeE** » Sat Jul 11, 2026 11:38 am

I'm seeing firsthand here why devs don't introduce modding into their games until they have everything working for their content! Haha.

It seems like there are plenty of models from these Evo conversions which look MTM2 on the surface, but aren't built to work properly in the game (bin-wise). Whatever the conversion process for those models was introduced lots of strange effects!

Fila · Post by **Fila** » Sat Jul 11, 2026 11:45 am

Well the main problem is that when these were converted, the game did not have a true concept of lighting and shadows. The shadows that existed were only for the terrain and nothing more. So there were various ways to texture a model and it would be fine because all it had to do was render and that's it. Now it has to react to lighting and shadow and that's where the problems show up because none of these models were built for that. So I am trying to apply modern gaming conventions to objects that were not made for that AND are not built to a unifying standard.

If anyone was to make models now, it would be much more simple because they would have the correct rules to make models to work with the lights and shadows and they would follow those steps and none of these problems would appear.

Fila · Post by **Fila** » Sat Jul 11, 2026 11:47 am

Realistically what is going on now is that I am trying to find workarounds in the light/shadow code for the preexisting models with broken structures, which is why it is such a pain and a fix for a specific model can blow up the fixes for everything else.

Fila · Post by **Fila** » Sat Jul 11, 2026 11:50 am

OG_RuDeE wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2026 10:33 am
IMO, all weather should have some shadows on the ground---maybe less contrast for cloudy, foggy and more contrast for day, dusk, night (or whatever), but some shadows nonetheless.

Sky reflection in water still flickers on and off when the map's seam is within the viewable distance of the camera, e.g. toward the end of Kryptik Mountains and at various points on Skull Islands. I was parked watching the trucks drive up the invisible bridge on Orient Express and the reflection would cut out when the trucks would come into view in the distance, I think I have it set to 60.

Lots of flickering palms (all instances of maybe two objects) now on Kryptik Mountains, this wasn't a custom model (that I remember) so probably affects other tracks using it.

The two bridges near the beginning of Skull Islands are invisible to me, also the bridge near the end of Treasure Bay 2 disappears and reappears. Something to do with not getting rendered because they are partially underwater? This has been an issue for some time, maybe even before beta 0.46.

- They should all have shadows except for Dense Fog and Pitch Black I believe. (pitch black for sure, I don't remember what i did with dense fog)
- Good news and bad news. I WAS able to trigger the sky reflection bug, but so very very briefly and was not able to find a reliable way to make it happen when I need it for testing. The orient express spot is a good bad so I will keep on trying to make it happen.
- Found the flickering, it looks like it is in the distance so likely a reverse-Z buffer issue specific to Dx11.
- Found the missing bridges too
- Snow is fine on my end so... ugh

Edit: Alright, I have confirmed the fence issue is because of my attempt to fix the edge case using a workaround. I'll just either have to find a proper fix or learn to accept it :p

OG_RuDeE · Post by **OG_RuDeE** » Sat Jul 11, 2026 12:22 pm

Parking here on Enocell's Truckstop 102, just after the last checkpoint I think and you can see the start in the distance, I was able to turn the reflection completely off.

Thanks for all the rest of your feedback so far. Also, I meant no offense to the people who did conversions, especially Malibu; that was a massive effort!

OG_RuDeE · Post by **OG_RuDeE** » Sat Jul 11, 2026 1:38 pm

Oh my glob! I was racing my Lands Between track just now, noticed the bg was broken. So, I checked my video of it from two years ago, and it was broken there too and I never noticed!

It's the Treasure Bay backdrop. Doh!

Fila · Post by **Fila** » Sat Jul 11, 2026 2:18 pm

I just blame it on my patches, making people too aware of all the details now :p

OG_RuDeE · Post by **OG_RuDeE** » Sat Jul 11, 2026 7:31 pm

I messed around a bit with that Treasure Bay backdrop, and it seems like the blue color at the top of the texture is what Dx11 doesn't like. By just passing the raw file into dummiesman's triraw utility to make a png, then passing that png back through it to rebuild the raw, the transparency (checkerboard) vanished, and it at least looks now like it did in the original game, just a grey bar. I imagine Malibu's original intention was to maximize the amount of sky that would be seen?

Anyway, I wonder if we need to start a list of models that need to be updated for these new renderers (dx9 / 11) for a new fixall pod rather than trying to do it all through code?

Fila · Post by **Fila** » Sat Jul 11, 2026 7:59 pm

Btw, Rudee, can you try snow on other tracks? does it happen everywhere for you?

OG_RuDeE · Post by **OG_RuDeE** » Sat Jul 11, 2026 8:52 pm

Just tried a handful of tracks on the 5600 xt, and was able to reproduce it on Quid one time, Enocell's TS 102, and Kryptik Mountains each once. After trying the tracks again, it didn't happen. Quid I got it to happen in dx11 and dx9. No other tracks seem affected. Maybe a map seam issue? Seems minor.

Fila · Post by **Fila** » Sat Jul 11, 2026 9:13 pm

Ford-chan wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2026 2:16 am

One side of Cale's Pontiac backdrop appears to be shadowed than the other side, other backdrops like RCA Dome, the shadowing effect appears at the ceiling of the stadium. Not really sure if this was intended, nor can I figure out where I am on the fence with this? So I'd like to see your opinion on it.

Oh, and this is all on the DX11 renderer running.

I'll get those shadows removed. MTM1 stadiums are finnicky already. Don't have to add to it

Fila · Post by **Fila** » Sat Jul 11, 2026 9:25 pm

Heh, the bridges on Skull Island are not a bug. Opening the track up in Traxx shows there is no actual bridge there. Just invisible boxes

Also I'm pretty sure the bridge on Treasure Island is intended like that, the tide rises over the bridge.

Also those flickering trees on Kriptik... I think I accidentally fixed them when I fixed the quid pro quo fences.
Also in the meantime I discovered they are broken too

They have waaaay too many verticies despite the fact that they are a simple 2D texture that shouldn't have more than 4. (they have 48)

Fila · Post by **Fila** » Sat Jul 11, 2026 9:35 pm

Ok so all weathers have shadows except for

Dense Fog
Rain
Pitch Black

Foggy has them but they might be too faint... also to note: lights DO CANCEL self shadows on objects, the shadows on the ground remain because that's a different coding path and it's a pain to get them to work together. So if you wanna check for self shadows on objects make sure you turn the lights off :p

Fila · Post by **Fila** » Sat Jul 11, 2026 11:09 pm

https://www.mtm2.com/~mtmg/misc/Beta0.48hotfix4.zip

I tried my best to fix the water reflection issue, hopefully it is finally fixed.

Other than that, I fixed the shadows for Quid Pro and the MTM1 drags by removing my edge case workaround (now edge case is broken again and I think I have to live with it).
Haven't touched snow because if we can't replicate that it's going to be a problem to fix it.
fixed the shadows in the weather systems
fixed the flickering palm trees in kryptik (broken model)

I actually implemented Kmaster's desire to have the spinning trees not cast shadows other than their original big square thing. Let's see how people feel about it. Otherwise they dim according to the weather and whether they are in shade or not (from other objects, caves etc)

Have not touched Mal's bridges because, based on Traxx, they should be correct and work as intended.

OG_RuDeE · Post by **OG_RuDeE** » Sat Jul 11, 2026 11:14 pm

Woo! Nice, Fila. I'll look forward to checking it out in the morning. Thank you.

Fila · Post by **Fila** » Sat Jul 11, 2026 11:30 pm

Also, I found somewhere in the logic where snow can break occasionally so I am going to add that as a fix too.

Fila · Post by **Fila** » Sun Jul 12, 2026 12:01 am

Edit, if you downloaded the patch prior to this post (check timestamp), then re-download.