MTM2 Beta Patch 0.46 - Lights and Mirrors

mtm2 and other sensible chat
User avatar
Ford-chan
Member
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:17 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.46 - Lights and Mirrors

Post by Ford-chan »

Kmaster wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2026 1:30 am on patched MTM2 or JSTruckviewer? or JSPod?
Just patched MTM2. JSTruckViewer isn't showing off that problem, unlike some of the other addon trucks on the Trucks domain page.

Couldn't tell ya about JSPod, I've yet to reach a purpose in time to where I'll need it for something.

EDIT: The transparencies issues with certain addon trucks are all caused by the Advanced Shadows not running when turned off, as is if the arena backdrop issue wasn't bad enough. :?
Last edited by Ford-chan on Sat Jun 27, 2026 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Fila
Member
Posts: 1613
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2001 2:01 pm
Location: Lost in Translation
Contact:

Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.46 - Lights and Mirrors

Post by Fila »

This flickering bug is proving to be impossible to fix so far.

There is a workaround for it but that workaround is really not what I want as it would set back any proper visual improvements with the game and it could potentially affect performance too (as in limit the number of HD trucks one can have on the screen).
User avatar
Ford-chan
Member
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:17 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.46 - Lights and Mirrors

Post by Ford-chan »

Fila wrote: Sat Jun 27, 2026 3:48 am This flickering bug is proving to be impossible to fix so far.

There is a workaround for it but that workaround is really not what I want as it would set back any proper visual improvements with the game and it could potentially affect performance too (as in limit the number of HD trucks one can have on the screen).
Just an idea if worse case scenario like this happens, but maybe give Striker a spell at the source code in case if you run into something that you don't know, but maybe he knows. On condition that it works out for both him and you, I can't simply start begging nor pestering for these things to happen straight away, I can only suggest these ideas on the table, and that's it, no further action from me at this point.
User avatar
Ford-chan
Member
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:17 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.46 - Lights and Mirrors

Post by Ford-chan »

Some new bugs I've found...

- Hitting the Bridge Closed Detour signs on addon tracks (stock tracks aren't affected for some strange reason), for whatever humorous reason, they have this catapulting effect once you hit them, they'll suddenly shoot somewhere in the distance.

- AI trucks have some weird race time finish bug, where on certain occasions, you can finish a race in 1st place, only for the AI to finish the race in like "00:-3.05:00" thus stripping you the win. Dafeck?!

Also, despite DX9 improving the game much more performance wise, it still needs some optimization done to it for any hint of FPS droppage to be eliminated completely. On my end, FPS droppages, while not stupidly major compared to DX5, it can still occur just a tiny bit with certain trucks and tracks from time to time, with or without Advanced Shadows turned on, which is a little bit of a bottleneck performance wise for me at this time.

I'm probably going to be asked what my specs are, but there you go...

Image

Let me see if updating my current driver does anything?
User avatar
Ford-chan
Member
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:17 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.46 - Lights and Mirrors

Post by Ford-chan »

Just updated my driver, not really much of a difference has happened, although, it may have stopped the game having a momentary pause from launching a race with Advanced Shadows turned on, but I may need to keep trailing it in case if I am correct about it.

Also, I just ran Wint's Cliffside with both Dusk weather and Advanced Shadows turned on, on the start of the second lap, the game decided to hard crash with me not being able to find out why, since the mouse cursor is all but locked out, to where I can't open that little Error Message diagnostic box to find out why.
User avatar
Jpez1432
Member
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:10 am
Location: U.S.A.
Contact:

Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.46 - Lights and Mirrors

Post by Jpez1432 »

I haven't been around lately but will work on the opengl renderer some more if I get a chance. Sadly what i had does not run with .45 dx9 mirrors patch. It only ran with .43 source code I had, so I either backtrack cause I am not sure what Fila changed. As far as the loader.bin rendering black I am pretty sure that's a color block and that isn't a bug. When you come across that face type you generate a texture with the corresponding RGBA values and use that as the current texture until another "texture" block is found. I am not sure on the other models you mentioned. Gotta dig into it more.
User avatar
Ford-chan
Member
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:17 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.46 - Lights and Mirrors

Post by Ford-chan »

Uhh.. Fila...

I just made some freakish discovery when playing with the MTM1 stadium drags again, turns out, it's more than the those drags giving out those black ground textures, it's actually happening on every single track with an arena backdrop, including MTM2's Torture Pit! :eek:

Basically, if you were to race on those tracks without Advanced Shadows turned on, all the ground textures are completely black, turning them back on fixes the problem immediately, the only downside is that the stadium/arenas themselves are now darker than what they should be. What was initially thought to be just the MTM1 stadiums doing this bug, is actually quite the opposite!
User avatar
Fila
Member
Posts: 1613
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2001 2:01 pm
Location: Lost in Translation
Contact:

Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.46 - Lights and Mirrors

Post by Fila »

Ford-chan wrote: Sat Jun 27, 2026 8:29 am Uhh.. Fila...

I just made some freakish discovery when playing with the MTM1 stadium drags again, turns out, it's more than the those drags giving out those black ground textures, it's actually happening on every single track with an arena backdrop, including MTM2's Torture Pit! :eek:

Basically, if you were to race on those tracks without Advanced Shadows turned on, all the ground textures are completely black, turning them back on fixes the problem immediately, the only downside is that the stadium/arenas themselves are now darker than what they should be. What was initially thought to be just the MTM1 stadiums doing this bug, is actually quite the opposite!
Oh good spot. That's an easy fix. I added a light direction to stadium tracks in order to create shadows (light directions were completely off). The advanced graphics knows how to deal with it because it does extra math to create shadows, the old school version of the game has no clue what this new information is so it trips out on the textures!
User avatar
Fila
Member
Posts: 1613
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2001 2:01 pm
Location: Lost in Translation
Contact:

Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.46 - Lights and Mirrors

Post by Fila »

Ford-chan wrote: Sat Jun 27, 2026 6:55 am Some new bugs I've found...

Also, despite DX9 improving the game much more performance wise, it still needs some optimization done to it for any hint of FPS droppage to be eliminated completely. On my end, FPS droppages, while not stupidly major compared to DX5, it can still occur just a tiny bit with certain trucks and tracks from time to time, with or without Advanced Shadows turned on, which is a little bit of a bottleneck performance wise for me at this time.
You might have to toy around with turning on/off water reflections and truck reflections.

This is the part that I mentioned that I am actually pushing the DX9 renderer quite a lot with these changes (it's as advanced as modern games right now). I might have to make some compromises with the reflections to stabilize fps. So long as the track has some water nearby its' probably main culprit. If the track has no water at all (or there is zero difference with water reflections/truck reflections off) then it points me to a bigger issue I have to look into.
Ford-chan wrote: Sat Jun 27, 2026 6:55 am - Hitting the Bridge Closed Detour signs on addon tracks (stock tracks aren't affected for some strange reason), for whatever humorous reason, they have this catapulting effect once you hit them, they'll suddenly shoot somewhere in the distance.
I actually remember the game doing this in before my changes too with some models. I might have made it worse because of the smoothness. I need the specific track and the exact model as I first need to see how the model is set up in Traxx.
User avatar
Fila
Member
Posts: 1613
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2001 2:01 pm
Location: Lost in Translation
Contact:

Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.46 - Lights and Mirrors

Post by Fila »

Ford-chan wrote: Sat Jun 27, 2026 7:28 am Just updated my driver, not really much of a difference has happened, although, it may have stopped the game having a momentary pause from launching a race with Advanced Shadows turned on, but I may need to keep trailing it in case if I am correct about it.

Also, I just ran Wint's Cliffside with both Dusk weather and Advanced Shadows turned on, on the start of the second lap, the game decided to hard crash with me not being able to find out why, since the mouse cursor is all but locked out, to where I can't open that little Error Message diagnostic box to find out why.
When that happens try using TAB to cycle through the window frames. And hitting the SPACE key is what registers as a click. You're right, the cursor is locked out as intended but you point out a good case where it needs to be activated. I can make the cursor become visible again whenever a crash happens with an error message.
User avatar
Fila
Member
Posts: 1613
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2001 2:01 pm
Location: Lost in Translation
Contact:

Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.46 - Lights and Mirrors

Post by Fila »

Jpez1432 wrote: Sat Jun 27, 2026 8:27 am I haven't been around lately but will work on the opengl renderer some more if I get a chance. Sadly what i had does not run with .45 dx9 mirrors patch. It only ran with .43 source code I had, so I either backtrack cause I am not sure what Fila changed. As far as the loader.bin rendering black I am pretty sure that's a color block and that isn't a bug. When you come across that face type you generate a texture with the corresponding RGBA values and use that as the current texture until another "texture" block is found. I am not sure on the other models you mentioned. Gotta dig into it more.
I changed the entire code. The game now does 90% of the image calculations on the GPU with different set of instructions. Prior it did everything on the CPU even when using DX5 or 3dfx (and hence the massive slow downs).

That's why we're running into some visual bugs now as well as I need to clean up cases where the new information doesn't match the old one.
User avatar
Ford-chan
Member
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:17 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.46 - Lights and Mirrors

Post by Ford-chan »

Fila wrote: Sat Jun 27, 2026 11:26 am This is the part that I mentioned that I am actually pushing the DX9 renderer quite a lot with these changes (it's as advanced as modern games right now). I might have to make some compromises with the reflections to stabilize fps. So long as the track has some water nearby its' probably main culprit. If the track has no water at all (or there is zero difference with water reflections/truck reflections off) then it points me to a bigger issue I have to look into.
What's the likelyhood of moving over to DirectX 11/12 if certain things with what you mentioned are just simply unachievable? I'd take it that not only is it just as much of a complex rewrite as DX9, but the game engine itself may not stand a chance of supporting it.
User avatar
Fila
Member
Posts: 1613
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2001 2:01 pm
Location: Lost in Translation
Contact:

Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.46 - Lights and Mirrors

Post by Fila »

A pretty big rewrite actually. Not as big as from 5 to 9 but there's significant changes to it.

Good news is that I already started on it. However I have to put it on hold until I fix the bugs reported in here because these particular bugs will carry over to dx11 if I don't fix them. The flickering one for example is a nasty one that wouldn't go away just by switching to 11. There's a logic failure in that bug and it's tied to a few factors that show the age of mtm2. The logic failure is a modern vs old thing so any new modern renderer has to be given explicit instruction how to deal with it.

The good part with 11 is that performance should improve even more so the particular fps slow downs should go away and there's more optipns to try and fix if they don't. Also, the shadow cut out line will be even further in dx11 to the point where it's not going to be noticeable anymore during normal play.
OG_RuDeE
Member
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2023 4:11 pm

Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.46 - Lights and Mirrors

Post by OG_RuDeE »

Extremely cool! Smooth 100 fps on my machine, and those shadows! Holy crap. Well done, Fila, and thank you! keep it up!
User avatar
Ford-chan
Member
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:17 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.46 - Lights and Mirrors

Post by Ford-chan »

Fila wrote: Sat Jun 27, 2026 11:26 am I actually remember the game doing this in before my changes too with some models. I might have made it worse because of the smoothness. I need the specific track and the exact model as I first need to see how the model is set up in Traxx.
Both Yeastman's Deception Pass, and Cowboy's Rocky Mountain Way 2 have this bug revolving around Bridge Closed Detour signs being catapulted in the distance when hit.
User avatar
Fila
Member
Posts: 1613
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2001 2:01 pm
Location: Lost in Translation
Contact:

Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.46 - Lights and Mirrors

Post by Fila »

I thought you would say Deception Pass :D :D :D
Those are not bugs. The objects are set with a 1 pound weight which means they fly when hit. For reference, the signs on Fila's Adventure are 30 pounds and that's roughly a more correct behaviour.
User avatar
Fila
Member
Posts: 1613
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2001 2:01 pm
Location: Lost in Translation
Contact:

Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.46 - Lights and Mirrors

Post by Fila »

Alright, I fixed the flicker issue without having to resort to my unwanted workaround... but it still drags the fps down a bit + added a few unforeseen issues. Trying to deal with those + see if I can reclaim that FPS back.
User avatar
Ford-chan
Member
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:17 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.46 - Lights and Mirrors

Post by Ford-chan »

Fila wrote: Sun Jun 28, 2026 12:29 am I thought you would say Deception Pass :D :D :D
Those are not bugs. The objects are set with a 1 pound weight which means they fly when hit. For reference, the signs on Fila's Adventure are 30 pounds and that's roughly a more correct behaviour.
Hahaha! That's funny enough to hear!

By the way, out of curiosity, I decided to load Team Death's Cave Racing to see how the Advanced Shadows are handled in such enclosed areas. And let's just say, it's just about darn near impossible to drive on with Advanced Shadows turned on, despite the headlights on the trucks being turned on, I literally cannot for the life of me see where I'm going, to where I've just about dropped the track altogether. In fact, now with Advanced Shadows turning enclosed areas into dark caves, there should be a mechanic implemented to where once a truck drives into a tunnel, the headlights will automatically turn on once inside. But then again, some tracks like Cave Racing may not work even with that mechanic, so some other optimization implementations are probably still going to be needed for these particular tracks in mind. Brighter headlights perhaps, high beams, give or take?
User avatar
Fila
Member
Posts: 1613
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2001 2:01 pm
Location: Lost in Translation
Contact:

Re: MTM2 Beta Patch 0.46 - Lights and Mirrors

Post by Fila »

That's actually an interesting idea. Right now I don't think headlights actually work in daylight. They were never meant to as they were never needed before. Other than showing lit on the truck for esthetics. I should be able to make them work though. I think I will add that to the wishlist rather than a bug that I'm trying to squash for a hotfix.
Post Reply