MTM2.com

Well this is my First Map. It's called Race and Crumble.
http://mtm2.com/~tracks/dl.cgi?dl=4754
The Zip says Final, but That is final up to this beta.
I really wanted this map to be a Race and Rumble map and I really hope you guys enjoy it and that some of the experienced track makers can give me some advice.

For a first track you're in very good shape. The only thing I think I could say at this stage would be about the transitions from flat ground to hills - it's a bit abrupt. You can smooth that out, if you want, by taking a couple squares to begin the rise/falls. Have a look on this page and see if it sparks any ideas.

http://cownap.com/~mtmg/traxx/altitude.html

Awesome advice, thank you very much for that. it taught me a lot and I ran with it. Now all the slopes I wanted curved are much better than before... I did keep some small hump/jump spots because that was my intention (for instance the small bump around Checkpoint 8 I think it is was to help racers jump over any rumblers that come.

I also updated and put it up again on the MTM upload... but I apologize I put it as an RNR and not as a Beta so now there are two tracks... one beta, and one RNR... can this be fixed? I'm sorry and it won't happen again if someone can fix it.

Also, someone made a suggestion to add trees/brush and texture to the mountains to help break up the green. Great idea but I'm not really sure how I'm gonna add mountain textures smoothly to the green but I will try.

Yep, a few trees would help, maybe even a few other models. In general I'm an advocate of "less is sometimes more" where models are concerned, so don't go nuts and say "Cope said I should put models in it!" lol.

As for the RnR/beta thing, I turned off the first version and changed the current version to beta, so that's taken care of. There's typically a $10 handling fee for that sort of thing, so make sure you get it right the next time, pal lol.

Track name - just to verify, you did intend for it to be "Race & Crumble", correct? It was spelled "Race & Crunble" so I figured it was just a type-o.

I'm at work right now so I'm unable to post pictures, and I'd rather not comment on the track based on the few laps we did this afternoon. I will, however, make a couple of general comments:

Anytime you have a bridge and/or sections of the track enclosed on both sides it creates situations that are more advantageous to blockers, which by no means is a bad thing. Putting a cp on the bridge was uh . . . well, rather nasty lol. Racers typically try to avoid bridges like the plague, but on your track that's not possible. You're meaner than I initially thought, Surelog . . . I like that lol.

Furthermore, you purposely put in several pathways so that blockers can easily maneuver around the track. That's also very good idea, but my initial impression is that maybe you made it a touch too easy for blockers. To balance it out a little if you decide to add models, set them to collide and place a few of them so that blockers have to be careful to avoid slamming into them. Trees, rocks, and bolders are good for that sort of thing. Maple Grove and Barnyard 108 1/2 (see RnR track list) are two good examples to refer to. Blockers can go anywhere, but in some areas you have to be careful.

In my opinion you were smart to set the cp's to no collide. Again, overall this is more of a blocker's track, so cutting the racers a little slack there was a good idea lol.

I'll have a little more for ya tomorrow, bud. Again, very nice job for your first track!

Alrighty - got off a tad early today (thank goodness), but still, time is off the essence so I don't have long lol.

Just a few observations for ya:

1. Your bridge is just a touch uneven. Sure, it's fine for the racers, but blockers, who often resort to going in the opposite direction on tracks (for obvious reasons) would definitely have an issue there.

2. Not sure if this was intentional or not, but if so . . . well, I'll shut up lol. If not, then it could defintely use a little adjustment.

3. Here's where all you'll want to do is acknowledge what the pictures reflect. This is your first track, but still - you should be aware of this sort of thing.

Here are a couple of shots from Alpine's Extremely Crazy 2.1: this & that

Now compare them to yours: that & this


See the difference in the texture work? Now, first of all I'm not a track maker; I just tell people, "Hey, this isn't right . . . and what about this stuff here? Fix that!!" lol. I know enough about track making to be dangerous, but what I will say is I wouldn't get all twisted out of shape about the textures for this track; it's fine. But as you start to make more tracks you'll want to learn how to make the texture work appear 'seamless', which I hear can sometimes be painstaking work.

Anyway, I just wanted to point that out to ya, that's all. Looking forward to seeing how this one shapes up! Ok, I'm off to have a look at Warrior's Tin Penny again then I'm hitting the sack.

Yes it's Race and Crumble. My bad, thank you for fixing that.



I could get rid of the bridge and go for a wide underground tunnel... or a wide upper bridge to help racers a little there.

Also, the Tracks are rougher than the race way... this should slow down the Rumblers a little bit; at least it has in my experimenting with racers to try and beat them to other portions to cut them off. I will however add some Trees and Brush to create some visual difficulties at the very least for rumblers.

the other closed up area was the ending of the tunnel... once again I sorta intended this I'm sure to noticed. to help a little bit I did add a small hope to help racers a little bit, but I did want there to be some struggle there.

Yep, and that's fine. Mind you, it's your track bud. If you like the bridge, keep it. I didn't say it was a bad thing, not at all. Heck, look at Maple Grove and Castlerock. Some good action takes place on those bridges lol. The intent of this forum isn't to convince you to make your track a certain way, but to help you improve on what you have technically and creatively. Technically there's typically only one or two ways to do something. Creatively it's wide open, and it's your choice as far as what you like or don't like. Sometimes a beta tester's observation may spawn other ideas on your part. Heck there really aren't any limits or restrictions when it comes to track making. Again, it's your call, bud. Make it how you want to.

Oh hey, if you use trees, be sure to set them to no collide, then use object boxes for the tree trunks. That way you're not being stopped by tree limbs or portions of the model you can't see.

I really appreciate all the advice...
Good call on the trees! I didn't know to do that with the check point flags are first... and people where just running into the flags hehe.
That's what I really hate about pepsi500... who the hell heard of a bush a monster truck couldn't go through?

If I put a new beta up of the map, will it update automatically?

Just use a new zip file name and we'll turn off the old one.

I was gonna wait till you got those pictures you where talking about Cope, but I already went ahead and updated the beta. it's the bigger file and the filename is the same except with a 2 in it.
hopefully it's a improvement.

Hehe I already posted the pics I was referring to. Check the fourth post from the top. I'll scope out the new version in the morning.

haha hey thanks for the pictures, I'm gonna fix that now. You might notice me and Textures don't get along at all.

http://mtm2.com/~tracks/details.cgi?t=4762

Hey so here is a hopefully a finalized version of my RNR map. Any last advice would be great. I've taken everything you guys have said seriously and it's all been very helpful and I thank you.

We already talked about the cp's - other than that I think it's a wrap, bud.

I see a new upload. Is there anything specific you're looking for on this version?

After a play test last night the consensus was that the bridge was too uh . . . treacherous for racers, so he widened it. A lot lol. He also added fencing to make the whine . . . I mean, racers feel more "secure". Seems to be good adjustment. I say it's a go!

Yep, I noticed the bridge. I think everything is fine.