MTM2.com

well, not finnished yet. In fact a lot is still wrong with it, maybe there should be an alpha section arround here. On the other hand this one might be a lot better then some other so called finnished tracks ;-)))))

So what's wrong with it? the computer trucks are a total mess, and I would like some feedback on how to improve that part, also ther is no readme yet, but I consider that a minor problem;-)

If you are still interested it's downloadable at my homepage:
www.oopstracks.com

then goto the Visa-Versa Page, or click on the picture on my page.

<IMG SRC="http://members.home.nl/oopsdesign/Gfx/morevv.jpg" border=0>

that also needs some fixes since I made that page in just a few hours;-)

Let me know your opinions please, just don't shoot me ;-)

OOPS;-)

[This message has been edited by OOPS (edited 31-10-2001).]

For some info on laying out the course segments for the computer trucks, see Mike204's Page for some notes I prepared for him. It should be pretty clear but if you have any questions, just ask. Course segments are not hard to do at all.

For the rest of the track, I don't know that there's much to say. You always seem to be in complete control of everything you're doing. But here's a couple ideas for you to make of what you will.

I always seem to like the versa better than the visa side of things. It was the same with tadnor.

I'm a fan of crystal clear racing lines. In this case, I guess I mean that some of the corners are myopic I wouldn't exactly call them blind, but you have to get pretty darn close before you know which way you'll be needing to go. On the other hand, it's tough to building perfect symetry into a track you plan to drive in both directions.

Speaking of both directions, I think I got whiplash the first time I hit a computer truck head on. It snuck up on me at a hill. Hmmm, don't know if I like two way traffic that much. But maybe that's just me.

I just said that comp trucks are a piece of cake to set agoing. Now, if you could get them to stay in their own lane, that would be an accomplishment indeed.

Lastly, I think on the v&v track I passed through the start gate twice - once it counted once it didn't. I got confused. But that might not have anything to do with the track either.

------------------

edit. On the visa and visa versa tracks, there is a spot where you crash through the barricades on a bridge. Between cp 1 & 2 on the visa track. No sir, I didn't like it. In fact, that whole bridge part is bothersome in that direction. And the amount of clutter-junk strewn across the rest of the track is a problem too.

edit: And there's a spot, I can't remember where it is right now, but you fly up a road and head into a covered bridge. The truck's momentum carries it into the air and you hit the roof every time. I'd like to see you raise the bridge or lower the water or get that object box outta there. Sure it might be possible to soar a bit too high and you'd travel through the roof, but hey, I like to fly too.

edit: good start to a great track.

------------------
- Phineus;-)

edit: you can remove those [ edited by ] notes when you edit a message.

[This message has been edited by Phineus (edited 31-05-2000).]

For the most part you have done a great job with the trucks although i did note a couple things that may help, this only pertains to Visa Versa but the other 2 may apply also, first of all the trucks seem to run into the bridge pillars now and then

<IMG SRC="http://home.earthlink.net/~richathr/vv2.jpg" border=0>


you may want to move them out so they don't protrude into the road area or set them to non-collide then insert an object box...

the 2nd thing i noticed was also just on Visa Versa
<IMG SRC="http://home.earthlink.net/~richathr/vv1.jpg" border=0>
the trucks overshoot the corner (red arrows) and continue to endlessly loop the oval (yellow arrows)... there is a hump in the road just before it that is part of the cause in addition a guard rail or a speed limit will correct this problem..

sorry i don't have a whole lotta time to go through them more in detail but if its any help at all i find the best way to find these problems is to just follow a group of comp trucks around and note the problem areas they have in common.. alot of times its just a matter of adjusting the angle of a model so the trucks don't come to a stop instead they bounce off and continue on also speed limits can help a great deal in certain situations...


i ran in complex and did notice a conciderable drop in f-rate around the bridge areas but it was still very raceable, so i cannot be of much help in this area, you need a volunteer with a slower machine to help out here..


hope this helps, keep us posted


[edit:] another thing is when the trucks roll which no matter what you do they will find a way to roll themselves but when this happens at a spot where a few roads intersect the heli never fails to set them on the wrong road so they end up doing a complete lap before they get to the cp they are supposed to be at next, so a major plus would be to pinpoint these spots and make the nessasary track/model/speed limit adjustments here if possible...




[This message has been edited by Malibu350 (edited 31-05-2000).]

i find this beta amazing. The bins look great. Your texture set brings out the looks, and your layout makes them beautiful. I love the tunnel it's a beauty. Wait the whole track is!

------------------

K-Dawg

Another excellent course by OOPS... and he has the nerve to put it out as a beta? What is this Dutchman trying to do? Make us all look incompetent?
Truly beautiful textures (as with the rest of his tracks), great models, good racing line. Maybe a few tweaks to make it "perfect"
but in my eyes this is the guy to follow if you want to learn about track making!
Can't wait to see the final version.

------------------
Keep on Monster Truckin'

EmceeMart

Well, i'd like to thank all of you for your positive reactions, and yes Mc this is still beta for me because it ain't working properly yet ;-).

I worked al day yesterday and today (national hollyday overhere;-)) but I didn't get it one step closer, well maybe a smal step but nothing good. (BTW thanks for the page at mike's 204, very usefull info folks!)I solved the problem malibu350 pointed out for me, so I took your advise and made 3 pillars non colidible and made sure the trucks stay on track just after the start/finnish. I also changed the starting position of the trucks (moved them further apart) to improve there behaviour at the first turn. However when 2 of 'em crash there chances are very high they will end up the wrong direction/track.

I also changed the courses at the long straight, now it's pretty safe when you drive on the righthand side (sorry emcee, no lefthand drive here;-))). I tried to apply this on more course segments but it made trucks turn arround ;-(

Phineus wrote:

I just said that comp trucks are a piece of cake to set agoing. Now, if you could get them to stay in their own lane, that would be an accomplishment indeed.

well like I said, i tried that with an even worse result....

This basicly means at any visaversa course you still have to use the same locations for start and end if you understand what I mean.

I'm really looking forward to the ghost option in 4x4evo, it would make this a LOT easier, although you probably beat the trucks i drive very easyly (?) <sorry for bad grammar>, as for the tunnel, I changed the bin models for that so they're now see through from above, thanks to winterkill for pointing that out. I know it's not perfect in chase far view, but I hope you think the improvement is good enough.

Driving through the tunnels is not very easy for a computer, and my experiments with "course width" , wich is not availlable in traxx btw, but thanks to your explenation of the sit file I changed it manualy, with NO result I might add ;-( also thanks to Obeone for his thread mentioned by winterkill, and yes i read them, I have no life so I read almost every post, acting like a sponge....., so I used them for a most of the bridge railings.

Malibu wrote:

another thing is when the trucks roll which no matter what you do they will find a way to roll themselves but when this happens at a spot where a few roads intersect the heli never fails to set them on the wrong road so they end up doing a complete lap before they get to the cp they are supposed to be at next, so a major plus would be to pinpoint these spots and make the nessasary track/model/speed limit adjustments here if possible...

well see here my biggest problem.......

I'm beginning to think this is an impossible task;-(, maybe I should not be bothered with it that much, you can also look at this from a different perspective. If a computer truck restarts into the wrong direction it will sooner or later come from the opposite direction, wich you could consider a driving baricade..., just thinking out loud. speaking of baricades phineus, I like the ones between ch1&2........', a track should not always be an easy run without any baricade, so do we have a fight? that would be our first;-)

as for the covered bridge you jump into, well it did look very unrealistic when i flew through it everytime;-) and making it higher is making it pretty ugly, believe me I tried.... so I guess I can't compromise on that (yes I like being in control;-) but thanks for the opinion.

Also phineus wrote

"I think on the v&v track I passed through the start gate twice - once it counted once it didn't. I got confused. But that might not have anything to do with the track either."

Well, there are only 20 possible checkpoints, so that's the reason, it can be confusing ofcourse but when you have the indicator on it should be no problem.

and

"I always seem to like the versa better than the visa side of things. It was the same with tadnor."

well, that's one of the main reasons to include a versa if possible, I just can't decide for myself so just give you both;-)

Malibu350 wrote

"sorry i don't have a whole lotta time to go through them more in detail but if its any help at all i find the best way to find these problems is to just follow a group of comp trucks around and note the problem areas they have in common.. alot of times its just a matter of adjusting the angle of a model so the trucks don't come to a stop instead they bounce off and continue on also speed limits can help a great deal in certain situations"

well, this is what I do, start of with 8 trucks and type "demo" and just watch what it's doing from the right perspective.

and

"i ran in complex and did notice a conciderable drop in f-rate around the bridge areas but it was still very raceable, so i cannot be of much help in this area, you need a volunteer with a slower machine to help out here.."

that's good to hear, did any of the other testers with "weaker configurations" have problems in sparse or normal mode?

an answer would be great help.

Winterkill wrote:

"OOPS;-) -- You've done some truly jaw dropping things here, for me personally. You've done things that I've struggled with and or really couldn't manage to accomplish at all, and you've done them thoroughly and almost flawlessly. You've made my own work with platforms, caves and tunnels look like absolute chicken scratch. Well done man, well done."

ehhhhhmmmmmmmmm;-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

and

"This track is amazing. Your placement and use of models is astounding. Your overall level design is excellent. Your technical and artistic skills are clearly at a professional level -- I'd suggest you contract yourself out as a level designer/artist for some game companies and make yourself some easy money. "

well that would not be easy money, cause this is hard work. But if TRI is reading this...........

and emceemart wrote

[/I]"Another excellent course by OOPS... and he has the nerve to put it out as a beta? What is this Dutchman trying to do? Make us all look incompetent?"[/I]

in short: YES!;-) (sorry couldn't resist, you know what I mean, nudge, nudge, wink wink, SAY NO MORE!;-))) (sorry just watched python again)

but mayge I should have called it "release candidate" to make it sound less insulting.

the final version isn't going to look different, it just isn't finnished yet.

BTW your beta looks pretty prommising mate, good jumps, smooth terrain, really looking forward to see this multi tracker taking shape.


OK I hope I didn't forget anything but to say thanks to Kdawg for his response, thanks!


PS sorry for your whiplash Phineus, please accept my apologie



[This message has been edited by OOPS (edited 03-06-2000).]

oops (tm) I forgot to mention.

I'm uploading the new pod (just the rallye) to
http://www.oopsdesign.demon.nl/Vv-beta2.zip

If you're interested;-)

PS nobody liked the statues? modeled them after some real ones you know, I might have to take them out if the artist doesn't aprove. He is a friend though;-)

>>so do we have a fight?

You bet we do !!! Who do these guys think they are, they come around asking for feedback, then when you give it to them, they give it right back again. (oops, I mean, uh oh, the main bbs must be contagious).

>>that would be our first;-)

Aw, cut it out or I'll get all choked up with sentiment. Now, I'm going to have to mark this date on the calendar so we can remember the anniversary of our first fight. And, btw, I'd like to wish us many more to come ;-)



------------------
- Phineus

that took you twenty minutes to give an answer, you should be online more often, this is way to slow ;-)))))))))))

Oh Ya, i liked those statues, very nice touch as are your textures, models, etc etc etc ... i tend to save the complements for the final releases...
this is not a normal beta tho.. more like an omega

Phineus... you may need to make those "post reply" "post new topic" buttons different colors or something or is he just living up to his name... j/k OOPS

Nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more!
Harhar OOPS! My stepson has just returned (to the States) from England after staying with my daughter for the last 3 weeks. While he was away I rented a couple of Python movies (Holy Grail and Meaning of Life) to corrupt the Yanks....er I mean to introduce British humour to my new American family - and they thoroughly enjoyed it. On my stepson's (Paul's) return, he enthusiastically urged us to rent a couple of movies he'd seen whilst in England - Monty Python's Holy Grail and Meaning of Life! Freaky huh?
Albatross on a stick anyone?

------------------
Keep on Monster Truckin'

EmceeMart

I love MP,,They were very popular in the 70's when i was in hs, i had most of their tapes at the time and even now i still own a couple of their cd's,, there was one skit that i cannot remember the name of though it had something to do with chocolate covered frogs LOL (i need to find that one)... The Life of Brian hehe i saw that in the theaters when it came out and the holy grail, ya gotta love the farm animal catapult and the brave but stupid dark knight...

shruberies, loopins, spam spam spam, dead parrots, bruce bruce bruce, i'm so poor we had to get up before going to bed then get up and go to work 20 hrs a day and when we got home our daddy would feed us broken glass and then...

jeez i even loved faulty towers and a fish called wanda...


hmmmmmm a bit off topic here... so i guess its time to d/l MCTrek

Maybe not so off-topic Mal. I have been considering a MP themed track for a while, I've got quite a few graphics already... it still needs some really silly planning though.

------------------
Keep on Monster Truckin'

EmceeMart

well it seems like we have more in common then mtm i guess

Big smile for us old folks 'ey....

BTW I think I have a release candidate I will post tonight, if i've got the time that is, very busy tonight.

About this track idea, wouldn't it be great to have a soundfile fom the holy grale (the black knight) that goes:

It's nothing, just a minor scratch, that's all.....

perfect MTM material IMO ;-)))))))))))

[This message has been edited by OOPS (edited 06-06-2000).]

Come back ya chicken, I'll bite yer knees off!

------------------
Keep on Monster Truckin'

EmceeMart

A track would have to have cartoon pepper pots, the organ music from the end of the holy grail for the track music (well maybe some john phillip sousa), and completely and utterly scrambled checkpoints if you want to keep it in the python tradtion. During the intermission we could all play "Find the Fish".

And now for something completely different.

Don't tell the dragon lady but Mrs. Richards is asking for her money again, about which Manuel knows nothing! Of course, we all know it was O'Reilly, and not the garden gnome, who closed the dining room door. And for breakfast, I'll just skip the kippers, thanks.

And of course a giant foot comming out of the sky..., I could go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on, but wont.

because:

There is a release candidate at:
http://www.oopsdesign.demon.nl/vv.htm

2:50.19 Visa
2:46.66 Versa
5:59.89 Visa-Versa (two head ons)

Seemed like more lag this time than last, but for the most part it was fine.

Well I was over 2.58 on Visa and Versa, and over 6 mins on the rally! (OK - I'm a crap driver)
I don't know how this track could be improved - the technology has not caught up with the creativeness yet! Prolific use of great models tend to make it a bit laggy in places BUT I would not take a single thing away (tell the whiners to get a job and buy a better 'pute -joke). The Rock textures are truly great to look at - I spent most of my time crashing whilst admiring the scenery!
The bridge models, tunnel models are fantastic. The first jump (on Visa) is good in that you have to avoid the debris on the road when you get to that section.
My first thoughts were: "this is Rondat Speedway extended". Not a bad thing.... you have the opportunity to step on the gas on a nice long straight section in all 3 courses. But some of those corners are wicked!
I am too much of a beginner to offer advice OOPS, but if anything, I would suggest a barrier of some kind just before CP1. You seem to have got it as good as it's gonna get.Great track.. a "must have".
Zoon must still be in love... OOPS is going to claim his crown. Tot ziens

------------------
Keep on Monster Truckin'

EmceeMart

Well i havent had too much spare time to test all three VV's thanks to WK posting that MP link i've been wasting way too much time there thanks WK great place...

as far as what i have seen in Visa Versa everything looks great a little laggy in spots but very drivable.. i'd say she's a goer no what i mean, know what i mean, say no more...

2:51 on visa but like MC i was admiring the scenery up close and the view was usually from non upright position...