MTM2.com

I have maintained for a while now that I seem to be slower than many other drivers. I've taken part in a few tourneys this year and have seen first hand how other racers can, at times, catch up, pass and accelerate, like I'm standing still. This has nothing to do with driving ability. There's no explanation but this game is full of odd quirks. Anyway, I finally figured out a way that we "might" test whether or not some computers are faster/slower than others. That is, straight-a-ways. We did the straight-a-way expo as a track making demonstration. Now, I propose to use a few of the less radical designs to make speed comparisons.

http://cownap.com/~mtmg/contests/expo2000/tracks.html

The trick is to select tracks that don't have too much air, too much water, or too many obstacles. I suggest any of the following will do adequately.

http://mtm2.com/~tracks/details.cgi?t=3022 Straight shooter
http://mtm2.com/~tracks/details.cgi?t=3013 Great Wall
http://mtm2.com/~tracks/details.cgi?t=3011 Marty's Run

Set the lap count to 2, and push the throttle full forward until you're finished.

I ran times back in 2000, and I just ran again now for sake of my own comparison. Oddly, I'm four seconds slower on my P3 than I was on a P2 (using auto).

<table cellpadding="2" cellspacing="2" border="1" align=center> <tr align=center bgcolor=navy> <td > - </td> <td>2000 - P2 400 mhz</td> <td colspan=2>2005 - P3 1ghz</td> </tr> <tr align=center bgcolor=purple> <td>transmission 2000 m s</td> <td>auto</td> <td>auto</td> <td>manual</td> </tr> <tr align=center> <td align=left>Straight shooter</td> <td>1:07.10</td> <td>1:11.36</td> <td>1:09.23</td> </tr> <tr align=center> <td align=left>Great Wall</td> <td>0:56.18</td> <td>1:01.12</td> <td>0:59.36</td> </tr> <tr align=center> <td align=left>Marty's Run</td> <td>1:00.55</td> <td>1:04.21</td> <td>1:02.21</td> </tr></table>

If you have a minute, please try one or a couple, let us know your time, and roughly your system.

I'm using a P3 1 ghz with 1 gig of ram and a 64 meg graphics card.

Thanks.

Interesting stuff, Phin. I'll have to give these a try when I get back (Sun night). I will say that I firmly believe computer specs play a role on "some tracks". I also know that line plays a significant role in lap time, and spending hours on a track learning every aspect of every corner goes a long way toward "blowing by people" during a race.

Straight-a-ways seem to be a reasonable way to take some of the mystery out of this whole deal since the line will be pretty much same for everyone. I have a Pentium 300 in my closet I've been threatening to put back together. I may have to expedite that now hehe. In the mean time I'll see how my current system fairs on these tracks.

interesting, i have also noticed my old 200 mhz seems to move faster than my 2.66 ghz, but i always figured it was just a trick of the frame rate, like 20 fps does feel faster than 60 fps just because of how it makes everything slightly jerkier and the land seems more out of focus, but maybe i really am going faster on my 200, i should try this some time

I wish I could help in this most interesting idea.
I too have always felt that some systems make
for faster racing. An old friend of mine who raced
MTM2, Evo and N4S online with me when I started
always said that no matter what he'd do as far as
settings in the games, I'd still win weather it was
circuit, rally's are straightaways. When he'd stop by
the house and we'd race on my comp his times always
seemed to improve, where when on his comp my
times would drop. So I do believe theres something to this.

Good, because I really wish you wouldn't. I'm not looking for crutches. I'm talking very specifically differences in speed. I don't care the reason. I'm not talking lap times.... but the straights give us an objective way to "attempt" measurement.

Some examples. Mal once mentioned being able to clear the bridge jump in crazy 98. I've never done it. Not even close. Same thing on Zoon Moon. I watched guys go twice the distance I went, they going half way up the colored landing area, me barely making the leap. And don't get into gears on me - if we can't keep the talk sensible, then there's little point. And, I watched Evil pass me once like I'd stepped on the brake - I didn't.

That's what I'm talking about. If there is an old computer correlation, that's not my concern. I just want to confirm or deny the reality of in-game speeds.

N8 could never do it either, and he blamed his computer, which at the time was slower than what I have now (1.9 gig/128 bit card, 1 gig mem), so I don't think that was it. I can, and from what I can tell it's all in the approach . . . or line, if you will. Don't wanna talk gears? Sure thing, but I've yet to meet anyone who runs auto make it.

If ppl are passing you like you're standing still, I submit to you the problem may be associated with your machine if you maintain it's not your driving. Are you getting 8500 rpms in neutral? If not, that's why people are blowing your doors off. I'm going to assume you've ruled out the obvious, but hey - figured I'd ask anyway seeing as how you say your times are 4 seconds slower on straights, which is quite a bit. Also, try running it in software (F4 so that you maintain 100% visibility) see what ya come up with.

i'd bed manual has somthing to do with it. The game designers would have put advantages to the added difficulty of manual transmission or there'd be no point to using the manual tranny.

> Don't wanna talk gears? Sure thing,

I don't want theorizing. It's time to bury this issue once and for all. The straights level the field as much as they can be. Let's see some times. There's no skill required to push the throttle full forward.


> but I've yet to meet anyone who runs auto make it

Who said anything about auto? See what all this talk and yammering does? Just gets us off topic.


> I'd bet manual has somthing to do with it

I include both above. My current manual is still slower than previous auto. Same controler.



> Are you getting 8500 rpms in neutral?

So are you saying this is a controler issue? Why bother pitting times against one another when we can just read this.

http://forum.mtm2.com/viewtopic.php?t=3844




Maybe it's not the computer or the controler. Maybe everybody just cheats.

I'll give those a few laps sometime next week if that can help you get over those inferiority complex lol

i'll post the results here

Intresting topic. I will also post some results when I can compile some data. But I got halted right away when I tried Wildcats Stright shooter, I got this:

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/ ... rError.jpg

I will try the other tracks you listed Phin, in the meantime...

Also, I think for us to get accurate results, everybody that trys this should run the gear specified by the garage setter (as listed on the dlownload window, that way we are all on the same page.

Im going to run a multitude of test on this to see what happens. but it may take a while.....

Thanks Jump, lol


Max, quit unmounting the stock tracks.

Ahh, ok. usually when Im running tests of any sort, or tournies, I unpod all the un-nesseries, and run the nessicities. So for tourneys my .ini usualy looks like this:

8
Fixmore4.pod
startup.pod
music.pod
sound.pod
truck2.pod
cockpit.pod
UI.pod
WhateverTrackImRunning.pod

Ok, I plan on running all 3 suguessted tracks that started this thread.

My computer: Athlon 2400+ (2010 MHz stock) Win XP (wich I optimized) Nvidia 64 meg mx-440 vid card, one stick of 512 DDR ram.

I will be doing this test in 2 diffrent stages. Two sets of 4 lap intervals, one using software mode, with Senery set to SPARCE, and Impage Quality set to LOW, and the other using Direct3D with every setting truned on to full capicity except for allow damage. This includes Senery set to COMPLEX, and Image quality set to HIGH. And doing this for both, using the stock 2010 MHz clocking, and using 1500 MHz clocking. And here are my results for:

Great Wall Of China:

2010 MHz Software Mode
Frame Rate Avg: 125 to 155 w/ peaks of 350 @ jumps

1800 s/s auto:
0:57:96
Maximum Speed hit: 106 MPH
Maximum RPM hit: 6500 RPM

1800 s/s manual:
0:56:72
Maximum Speed hit: 109 MPH
Maximum RPM hit: 6800 RPM

2010 MHz Direct3D
Frame Rate Avg: 200 to 250 w/ peaks of 300 to 350 @ jumps

1800 s/s auto:
0:57:86
Maximum Speed hit: 106 MPH
Maximum RPM hit: 6500 RPM

1800 s/s manual:
0:56:67
Maximum Speed hit: 109 MPH
Maximum RPM him: 6800 MPH

1500 MHz software mode
Frame rate avg: 90 to 125 w/ peaks of 200 @ jumps

1800 s/s auto:
0:57:93
Maximum Speed hit: 106 MPH
Maximum RPM hit: 6500 RPM

1800 s/s manual:
0:56:68
Maximum Speed hit: 109 MPH
Maximum RPM hit: 6800 RPM

1500 MHz Direct3D
Frame Rate Avg: 145 to 156 w/ peaks of 200 @ jumps

1800 s/s auto:
0:57:86
Maximum Speed hit: 106 MPH
Maximum RPM hit: 6500 RPM

1800 s/s manual:
0:56:69
Maximum Speed hit: 109 MPH
Maximum RPM hit: 6800 RPM



Straight Shooter:

2010 MHz software mode:
Frame Rate avg: 300 to 330 w/ peaks of 350 @ jumps

2000 m/s auto:
1:07:89
Maximum Speed hit: 111 mph
Maximum RPM hit: 6200 RPM

2000 m/s manual:
1:06:83
Maximum Speed hit: 113 mph
Maximum RPM hit: 6600 RPM


2010 MHz Direct3D
Frame rate avg: 200 to 330 w/ peaks of 350 @ jumps

2000 m/s auto:
1:07:75
Maximum Speed hit: 111 MPH
Maximum RPM hit: 6200 RPM

2000 m/s manual:
0:106:68
Maximum Speed hit: 113 MPH
Maximum RPM hit: 6600 RPM

1500 MHz software mode
Frame rate avg: 90 to 120 w/ peaks of 330 @ jumps

2000 m/s auto:
1:07:52
Maximum Speed hit: 111 MPH
Maximum RPM hit: 6200 RPM

2000 m/s manual:
1:06:50
Maximum Speed hit: 113 MPH
Maximum RPM hit: 6600 RPM

1500 MHz Direct3D
Frame Rate avg: 150 to 200 w/ peaks of 250 @ jumps

2000 m/s auto:
1:07:67
Maximum Speed hit: 111 MPH
Maximum RPM hit: 6200 RPM

2000 m/s manual:
1:06:58
Maximum Speed hit: 113 MPH
Maximum RPM hit: 6600 RPM



Marty's Run:

2010 MHz software mode
Frame Rate avg: 120 to 143 w/ peaks of 335 @ jumps

2000 m/s auto:
0:59:97
Maximum Speed hit: 108 MPH
Maximum RPM hit: 6000 RPM

2000 m/s manual:
0:58:83
Maximum Speed hit: 110 MPH
Maximum RPM hit: 6100 RPM

2010 MHz Direct3D
Frame Rate avg: 165 to 200 w/ peaks of 335 @ jumps

2000 m/s auto:
0:59:99
Maximum Speed hit: 108 MPH
Maximum RPM hit: 6000 RPM

2000 m/s manual:
0:58:80
Maximum Speed hit: 110 MPH
Maximum RPM hit: 6100 RPM

1500 MHz software mode
Frame Rate avg: 110 to 160 w/ peaks up to 250 @ jumps

2000 m/s auto:
0:59:84
Maximum Speed hit: 108 MPH
Maximum RPM hit: 6000 RPM

2000 m/s maunal:
0:58:80
Maximum Speed hit: 110 MPH
Maximum RPM hit: 6100 RPM


1500 MHz Direct3D
Frame Rate avg: 145 to 165 w/ peaks up to 335 @ jumps

2000 m/s auto:
0:59:85
Maximum Speed hit: 108 MPH
Maximum RPM hit: 6000 RPM

2000 m/s manual:
0:58:79
Maximum Speed hit: 110 MPH
Maximum RPM hit: 6100 RPM

TEST'S CONCLUDED.......

I have to table all that, Max, or I can't read it, lol.
[pre] MAX Great Wall Of China computer settings, garage settings, frame rate, speed, rpm, lap 2010 MHz Software 1800 s/s auto 125 to 155, 106, 6500, 0:57:96 1800 s/s manual 109, 6800, 0:56:72 2010 MHz Direct3D 1800 s/s auto 200 to 250, 106, 6500, 0:57:86 1800 s/s manual 109, 6800, 0:56:67 (0:56.18) 1500 MHz software 1800 s/s auto 90 to 125, 106, 6500, 0:57:93 1800 s/s manual 109, 6800, 0:56:68 1500 MHz Direct3D 1800 s/s auto 145 to 156, 106, 6500, 0:57:86 1800 s/s manual 109, 6800, 0:56:69 Straight Shooter computer settings, garage settings, frame rate, speed, rpm, lap 2010 MHz software 2000 m/s auto 300 to 330, 111, 6200, 1:07:89 2000 m/s manual 113, 6600, 1:06:83 2010 MHz Direct3D 2000 m/s auto 200 to 330, 111, 6200, 1:07:75 2000 m/s manual 113, 6600, 1:06:68 1500 MHz software 2000 m/s auto 90 to 120, 111, 6200, 1:07:52 2000 m/s manual 113, 6600, 1:06:50 (1:07.10) 1500 MHz Direct3D 2000 m/s auto 150 to 200, 111, 6200, 1:07:67 2000 m/s manual 113, 6600, 1:06:58 Marty's Run computer settings, garage settings, frame rate, speed, rpm, lap 2010 MHz software 2000 m/s auto 120 to 143, 108, 6000, 0:59:97 2000 m/s manual 110, 6100, 0:58:83 2010 MHz Direct3D 2000 m/s auto 165 to 200, 108, 6000, 0:59:99 2000 m/s manual 110, 6100, 0:58:80 1500 MHz software 2000 m/s auto 110 to 160, 108, 6000, 0:59:84 2000 m/s manual 110, 6100, 0:58:80 1500 MHz Direct3D 2000 m/s auto 145 to 165 108, 6000, 0:59:85 2000 m/s manual 110, 6100, 0:58:79 PHINEUS Great Wall Of China re-ran 1800 s/s manual 60 100, 6100, 0:59.61 recalibrate 1800 s/s manual 60 100, 6100, 0:59.61 keyboard 1800 s/s manual 60 107, 6600, 0:56.59 (0:56.18) Straight Shooter keyboard 1800 s/s manual 111, 7000, 1:06:35 keyboard 2000 m/s manual 115, 7200, 1:06:28 (1:06:50) [/pre]

Sorry Phin, I have trouble getitng tables to line up proplerly using forums, so thats why I've been listing this the way I have.

[pre] I don't mind, and it forces me to look more closely at what you're doing. [/pre]

PS. Click <img src="templates/smartDark/images/lang_english/icon_quote.gif"> to my post to see the trick.

tables and such don't appear for me here so how about some rocket science.

SpeedTrail.jpg

I was almost ready to conclude my controller has been behind it all the time, but now I don't know what to think

Some notes on this experiment:

A. Don't try and cook and do experiments at the same time, you wind up with burnt food. LMAO!

B. According to my computer, and obvious consensus, that in the battle of auto vs. manual, Manual is the way to go, hands down. Times were reduced by a whole second or more, on each track.

D. From switching from 2010 MHz to 1500 MHz on straight-a ways what were used in this trial, varied in reduction rates of 1 1/10's all the way up to 4 1/10's on certian tracks. This could be benificial of you are running for a HOF time. And when driving a straight-a-way such as these, theres no way a person can drive a perfectly straight line, your always gonna have steering corrections to keep it on a straight path. And every time you adjust for this, you are loosing time. And im not talking 10's here, I'm talking 1/1000's of time lost. And when you add them together, you have a few 10's here and there. This also ties in with when I was making steering corrections on these tracks, I could feel the diffrence between 2010 MHz and 1500 MHz. The 1500 MHz settings had more of a "grippier" feel if ya will, vs. the 2010 MHz setting. And with the 2010 MHz setitng, I found that you have to be more presise with your steering corrections, as the slightest adjustment would be more critical, and getting it straight felt more "slippy-er" if ya will.

E. Frame Rates also varied quite a bit. However, it is hard to figure frames, as they change so fast, and I tried to get the best average I could with my naked eye, and may not be as "super accurate" as I documented. I did however notice that the frames varied from track to track, most likely having to do with model placment from track to track. And I also noticed that on "Great Wall" my frames dropped dramatically when I went under over-passes, and "tunnels" of Ground boxes, but perked back up when I was out of that area.

I also found that there is a diffrence of a 50 to 100 FPS average drop. when I was racing in Chace Far view. ei. on Straight Shooter, I was getting an avg of 200 FPS on 2010 MHz with full screen cockpit view. And when I switched to Chace Far, the FPS dropped to 100 to 150 on average.

Same goes with running full screen, to a minimized screen, the frame rates were drastically reduced to 70 to 90 PFS, down from 150 to 200 FPS on a spacific occasion I tried it.

Also, on some of the jumps, the longet the jump, the more the FPS spiked. As the smaller jumps didnt affect it much at all. But on the long big air jumps, the more the truck's nose tipped in the air, the higher the FPS started going up. Probably because of the game having to only render more of the sky, than the rest of the track.

So in conclusion, and given the results we have from Phin, and myself. It appears as if diffrent computers, with diffrent settings, can have a profound effect on lap times. But let's not rule out that wne racing a circuit or rally, that the line, and gear, can greatly change the outcome of your lap times. For example: on Snowbound, I was running a 1900 M/s, while others were on a 14 through 1600 gear. And on the long straights, I could simply catch up to people, and blow by then like they were standing still.



Define cheating. Nowere in my years of playing this game, have I stumbled across a rule book for MTM2, stating what you can, and cannot do. And if you do, your a cheater. Food for thought.

The cheat line was just razzin' cope.

In conclusion, what do you find to be the determining factor? According to cope, if you and I race, a circuit or rally, and we use the same garage sets, then the winner will be the one who drives best that day. I disagree. If I cannot get the rpms, the top speed, whatever, then there is nothing I can do, regardless of how well I might drive, to contend with another racer who can achieve those things. The purpose of this test is two fold. First, is there a difference at all to begin with. Just switching from controler to keyboard marked a drastic difference for me. And switching your clock settings had an impact for you. The second thing is an attempt to find out what is behind these differences. Does this mean I'll never contend so long as I use this computer? Or is there a short list of adjustments that can be made. If so, what are they?